Marshmallow and Mor'du have never met and they never will because Mor'du was claverly killed by Queen Elinor in the middle ages and Marshmallow was created by Elsa in the 1780s (or the 1840s wich ever you belive). But if they did meet, WICH MONSTER WOULD VANQUISH THE OTHER?
Dragonboy6491 wrote: Wolf, please stop with the quotes! Just say "@Person"
Now anyways ...
1. By definition, legends are stories based on historical fact, but they are not verified and thus, prone to having false information. So yes, that does mean Mor'du's legend is exaggerated. Furthermore, if you watch the sequence, it's completely different animation from Brave's animation, providing heavy implication that it is simply a story. Unless I see Mor'du actually tearing apart armies using the film's animation, I'll treat the legend as exactly what it is, a fabricated story. Secondly, thank you for correcting me with regards to Elinor but I still rest my case. The menhir is a heavy rock but it is STILL JUST THAT ... a rock. A bear being defeated by a rock when WHOLE armies failed ... DOES. NOT. ADD. UP.
2. I'll tell you how Marshmallow would survive. He cannot die. I don't know how many times Varg and I have said this but Marshmallow isn't alive. He's just an animated pile of snow. We do not know how Marshmallow survived the fall but saying that there was snow down there is purely speculation on your part. I can easily say there wasn't and it'd be speculation as well. And I didn't catch Marshmallow's leg falling down with him, so that discounts your other claim.
3. Using wrestling is a terrible example. Wrestling has rules. This brawl is an all-out fight to the death. There are no rules and Marshmallow can do whatever he wants. In any case, all you have is legend to substantiate Mor'du's supposed physical strength. Marshmallow on the other hand, threw an entire tree a considerable distance at Kristoff and Anna.
4. Theory is no good here if there's no evidence to suggest it. As such, I can safely say the menhir IS NOT magic and JUST a rock.
5. Again, Marshmallow IS NOT alive. Saying Marshmallow can chase people as justification for him being biologically alive is completely flawed. I can make a remote control airplane chase Anna and Kristoff off a mountain, does that mean it's alive? Seriously, Wolf, I don't mind this argument but if you can't substantiate your claims with proper empirical evidence and sound logic, I can't take you seriously. But fair enough, Marshmallow can melt. First off, if you were Marshmallow, would you walk off to follow a bear in complete disregard of your own sensitivity to heat? Marshmallow isn't stupid. So again, poor argument. Secondly, in a testament to his biological needs, Mor'du needs to eat. Marshmallow, as I've said, is not alive, and could starve Mor'du out.
6. You don't know it weighs two tons. Again just pure speculation.
7. You're joking right? Hans is easily one of the tallest characters in Frozen and you're saying that Elinor is TALLER than him? I refuse to believe that. Unless you can prove otherwise with a side-by-side comparison, Elinor is NOT taller than Hans. Secondly, the camera is FURTHER from Marshmallow. LOOK at how small all the people in there are. You can say Elinor is taller than Hans ... fine, but taller than ALL the Arendelle guards?! I'm not buying it. In the picture with Mor'du, FERGUS IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA. I don't think I need to be looking at the pictures more closely, it's QUITE the opposite.
8. All right, animal intelligence is somewhat a subjective area so I'm not going to get too into this. But in any case, you said it yourself. Bears need food. Guess what? Marshmallow doesn't. Hey, what's that I hear? Mor'du STARVING to death.
9. I asked if we SAW the sword shatter. We heard someone SAY it shattered. Very different. As I've said, legends and stories are not verifiable and thus, poor evidence to support a claim.
10. I'm going to ignore the legends bit as I've made my point on that clear. Marshmallow never TRIED to cut anyone. The closest he came to actually killing/hurting anyone was when Hans beat him. Every other time, he simply warned them to stay away. And don't bother telling me that I just admitted Marshmallow is physically incapable of killing anyone. ANYTHING that can toss a tree to the extent Marshmallow did has an undeniable amount of strength. And what makes you think Mor'du can break off Marshmallow's limbs? Where's the evidence to suggest he's that strong? I want you to actually find a time-stamp in Brave to showcase Mor'du's supposed strength. And I'm sorry if it comes off as giving you an assignment, but your comments thus far clearly show you will not back up your statements with actual proof.
Dragonboy I admit your a smart guy but I think your a bit confused on who has the most advantages.
1. Not all legands are false (ex Bigfoot, giant squid and other criptids or former cripteds). Just because they used diffrant animation for The Legend of Mor'du dous't mean it's not canon with the movie and it's obviosly true as evadanced by the fact that thier were the skalatons of warriors around the castel ruins when Merida and Elinor found the place after being led there by the Wisps. Also remamber that rock was HUGE, you can't look at the menhir and say it's not very heavy.
2. Anything that has a mind (intallagent or unintaliagent) is alive and anything that is alive can die. It's not spaculation I know their was snow down at the bottom of that raven cause I saw it there. Marshmallow could have climbed up the cliff, gotten his choped of leg and somehow reatached it.
3. I know wrastleing has rules I was just using an example. That tree Marshmallow throw seemd young so it's not like it weighed as much as an elaphant it could have been light.
4. I thout of the magic rock theroy cause the Menhir was part of an achent ring of stones witch could have been used for worship (why else have a ring of stones) not just some randome rock that happend to be there
5. As I said before Anything that has a mind is alive and he may not be the most intalagent monster around but Marshmallow still has a mind so he is alive. I think I have been telling evadance.Mor'du could keep hiting Marshmallow back to get him to the bottom of the mountain or he could just get Marshmallow to become so foucased on him that Marshmallow forgets about the envirnment (that how Elinor killed Mor'du when he was obsased with killing Merida). Also Marshmallow may not even know he would melt, remamber Olaf's In Summer song, I Olaf did know he could melt why would Marshmallow know.
6. That stone is very heavy. It's not just about size rock is very dense wich makes it heaver. That stone must weigh over a ton how much could a very big Menhir like that weigh.
7. I know Hans and the guards are taller then Elinor I was just saying how he LOOKED taller in the pictur to deminstratr the fact the in the photo Mor'du is further from the camra and Marshmallow is closer to the camra wich could give the illusion that Marshmallow is larger when they were around the same size. I know you say it's the opposit but it seems like Mor'du is further to me.
8. It not like Mor'du has to eat every 12 hours like a shrew. Bears can go a long time without eating, when they hibernat (wich they do for 3 months) thay love off thier body fat alone. Also who said the fight would last for a month or more, Mor'du could bet Marshmallow in one day.
9. Merida know what Fergus was going to say when he was telling the story wich means he told it multipal times and Fergus would know if or not the sword realy shaterd cause He was their. It's not like Fergus could have heard it wong from someone he was their he witnised it happen.
10. If Marshmallow will not kill in the battel to the death he will loss. Let say their is a sword fight to the death, one guy is willing to kill and ready to go for a death blow and still defanding and the other is not willing to deal the killing blow and is basicly trying to avoid getting cut, who's more likely to win in the long run? If Mor'du can brake bones then why can't he brake ice. As I said before the evants in the Legand of Mor'du are true as evadanced by the skalatons of soldurs among the castle ruins.
Well my attempts to get you to stop quoting clearly aren't working ...
Anyways, enough. I've tried my best to substantiate my claims with evidence whereas you just blatantly make statements of pure conjecture. I'm done arguing; instead, I will take what you're saying (the quoted bits) and show you exactly how I see it; warning, there is a lot of sarcasm. Sorry, but I've had it:
1. "Just because they used different animation, doesn't mean it didn't happen. And also, legends can be true because look at Bigfoot, even though there is no scientific evidence to support its existence." Bad argument because first sentence is simply refuting my claim but not offering any reasoning as to WHY it doesn't mean that. Why would they make the animation different unless they were highlighting the fact that it was a separate, possibly exaggerated story? And as for Bigfoot, I rather sarcastically explained by views regarding that.
2. "If something has a brain, it's alive, even though dead humans technically still have a brain before fully decomposing. But a dead human still has a mind, therefore it's alive." Bad argument. If you're going to come up with a sweeping generalization that encompasses what is alive and what is not, you need to account for marginal cases.
3. "The tree looked young even though I have no evidence whatsoever." The age of the tree doesn't matter. Let's see you pick up a tree and throw it as far as Marshmallow did.
4. "I thought the theory because the rock COULD have been used for worship." Again a lack of evidence. Pure speculation.
5. See number 2 regarding dead humans' brains. And secondly, "Mor'du can totally hit Marshmallow down a mountain because I said so; it's not like I can name a time in the movie where Mor'du actually displays his strength to compare it to Marshmallow's tree throw. I'm also going to say Marshmallow has no idea he would melt simply because I can." (Actually, the Essential Guide for Frozen says Marshmallow is afraid of fire, so terrible argument aside, your claim is wrong)
6. Honestly, this point is pretty valid. It's speculative but has strong interpretive evidence to support it. As such, I will properly answer this claim with math. I have no calculator so it's heavily simplified.
Force = mass*acceleration Force*distance = Work = Energy
2 metric tons = 2000 kg * 10 m/s^2 = 20000 N of force from the rock. Assume it falls a distance of (I'm going to be generous here) 10 meters. 200000 J of energy KILLS Mor'du.
Now Marshmallow's fall:
We have to make a lot of assumptions here. The density of snow differs based on how its packed but judging from Marshmallow's durability, I'd say he has a density equivalent to glacial ice: 830 kg/m^3. And I'll estimate his volume based on length*width*height. Assume Hans is 1.7 meters tall (5 foot 6 inches). Marshmallow is 3.5 Hans tall, 3.5 Hans wide, 1.5 Hans long.
(3.5 * 1.7)+(3.5*1.7)+(1.5*1.7) ~ 15 m^3 volume for Marshmallow. Now his mass based on density:
155 m^3 * 830 kg/m^3 ~ 12450 kg
Marshmallow's fall = 12450 kg * 10 m/s^2 times (assuming Kristoff's predication is accurate 200 feet is about 60 meters) 60 meters = 747000 J of energy.
Marshmallow SURVIVES. Fair enough, "there was snow." Even so, Marshmallow fell, landing with an energy of nearly four menhirs, and still lived. The snow can only mitigate so much. I did discount the force of air resistance but Marshmallow is made of such compressed snow and ice that he can essentially slice right through air. Where's the math to back up your claims? Marshmallow is more durable.
7. "Marshmallow is closer to the camera even though Hans and the guards look like midgets." I don't think you understand perspective. Marshmallow is FARTHER away. This point is just plain wrong, Wolf. Also, if the camera was closer, Marshmallow would appear EVEN BIGGER. He wouldn't even fit on SCREEN. Notice how the Duke's thugs aren't midgets in this picture ... why? BECAUSE IT'S CLOSE UP.
8. "I say the fight can be over in two seconds." In a fight to the death, anything goes. Marshmallow can make it last a month if he so wishes. "I say Mor'du can beat Marshmallow in a day even though Marshmallow is obviously more durable." See my math.
9. "If a character says something is true, it must be." Oh, I guess I must have IMAGINED Hans lying to Anna's face about loving her.
10. "If you aren't aiming to kill, you won't win a battle to the death." I suppose I IMAGINED Batman letting R'as al Ghul FALL to his DEATH. Doesn't work like that Wolf.
Correct these fallacies in your reasoning and then we can discuss this further. Until then, Marshmallow wins. Again, I apologize for the immense sarcasm, but this argument keeps hitting a wall when you post Wolf.
2. How can anything have a mid of it's own and not be alive.
3. I think Mor'du would esaly be able to throw the tree if he had oposabel thumbs. Marshmallow was able to thrown the tree and Mor'du is stronger then Marshmallow (Mor'du bet who armys and Marshmallow could't bet one small army).
4. Who said thous were the only soldurs Mor'du killed. The Legend of Mor'du says he bet his army and thier were the skalatons of warriors so it seems to me like the short was cannon with the movie.
5. I keep looking at the pic and it still seems to me that Marshmallow is closer to the camria.
6. From what I saw Marshmallow pretty much disapperd in the snow down that cliff so thier must have been a whole lot of snow to cushin the fall (probbobly alot more snow down that cliff then the one Anna and Kristoff fell down). Also Marshmallow is made of snow wich would serve to cushin the fall for him more.
Again, you fail to use proper evidence. I on the other hand, not only have cited actual parts of Frozen but have also provided empirical proof that Marshmallow is more durable and can take more hits. As such, I will continue what I've been doing: pointing out the flaws of your argument.
1. Because A is true, B must be true. Wrong. The Disney Fairies franchise may be canon but it is an entirely separate series from Peter Pan. However, The Legend of Mor'du clip was made to accompany Brave. Also, while the animation is different, it remains faithful to the representations of Peter Pan. The Legend of Mor'du on the other hand, looks completely crude and primitive by comparison to its movie counterpart. It is nothing more than a story. You failed to refute my claim earlier and you are still failing to do so.
2. Okay, my sarcasm on this point seemed to be missed so I will be plain with you. Humans have brains right? Well, a DEAD human ALSO has a brain before it has decomposed. It's not alive, but you say that anything with a mind must be alive. Therefore, your method of classifying an entity as living is invalid.
3. I refuse to give evidence. It doesn't matter "IF" Mor'du can. You haven't listed a time when Mor'du ACTUALLY displays his strength in comparison to Marshmallow.
4. The flaw in your reasoning here? Citing The Legend of Mor'du when I have repeatedly repudiated your reasoning behind it. Try a different example to showcase Mor'du's strength. In any case, it STILL makes no sense that a bear who can take on entire armies dies from a ROCK. I don't care how heavy that rock is, a whole army would always be more formidable.
5. The flaw here? You're simply wrong. I don't want to be mean, but you don't seem to grasp perspective. Sorry to sound blunt, but saying Marshmallow is closer in the shot with Hans and the guards is just WRONG.
6. I'm just going to give more speculation. Even if we did see snow below, we didn't see how much snow. Besides, I can drop a bomb on a pile of snow, and I don't care how much snow is there, the energy release is massive enough where it won't make a difference. Two humans falling is one thing (I'd do the math for you but you've stated it confuses you so I won't); a giant snowman falling is another.
Wolf, please treat this more SCIENTIFICALLY and give actual PROOF. Otherwise, your claims are not substantiated and mean nothing. Varg and I on the other hand, have built a body of evidence that indicates Marshmallow wins.
Ok I'm sorry to say this but it just seems to me like Mor'du would have more advantages.
1. Weather or not it's a seprat franchis or made to accompany the movie dous't realy affect weathor or not it's canon and again thier is evadance in the movie that the evants in the Legend of Mor'du realy happend (like the thrown room in the castel ruins being field with the skaletons of dead warriors). Also I have read diffrant sites about the Legend of Mor'du and thay all say the same thing that it "explors the backround of the villain in the movie" so if you are going to say that the animated short is none canon then your going to have to give a link to a reliabel website that says it is't. Besides their are events in the movie that show Mor'du has the strangth of ten men (like when he esaly bet the Lords, their sons and the other soldurs with just 3 swipes from his paws)
2. How can something not be alive if it can think or has a mind?
3. When he killed many of the soldurs in his army or when he swiftly bet the soldurs who tryed to kill him in the climax of Brave.
4. The menhir could have been magic. I know I know you said thier is no real evadance to support that but remamber it was't just some random bolder that was just their it was a part of an anchint ring of stones and multipal Menhirs (perticulry ones in ovals or circals like in the movie) were often used by anchent people for ceramoneial worship. Also you keep saying that if Mor'du could have killed entire armys then a simple rock should't have been enough to kill him wich kinda means that the Menhir is magic since it was enought to kill the demon bear that killed many of the warriors inhe army and spent centurys slaghtering people in the mountains.
5. Sorry but it still kinda seems to me like mor'du is a bit farther from the camra in the picture and even if Marshmallow was bigger he would't be gargantuly bigger, Marshmallow at best would only be an inch or two taller and even if he was much bigger that dous't mean he would win. In natur thier are many cases of animals being eaten by smaller animals like Cougers who cathc and kill bull Elk.
6. When Marshmallow fell he completly dissapeard in the snow and he is a large monster wich means their must have been alot of snow for him to be coverd in down thier. Also a bomb would give off heat from the exposion witch would help disperse the snow but Marshmallow dous't give off heat.
7. Metal swords, spears, axes and arrows hardly even affected Mor'du so I don't think that demon is going to be to concernd about claws made of Ice cause metal is stronger and more durabel then ice (as evadanced by the fact that Hans' sword quickly cut throw Marshmallow's leg).
8. Also if Fergus sword did't shatter on Mor'du's hide then why would he say that. He should know it was him who fought Mor'du and witnesed what happend.
I've once again listed evadance as to why I think Mor'du would win in the fight and I have stated many facts with proof. If this is not proper evadance then please expane why.
I say Marshmellow because if snow and/or is around he could use the snow and/or ice to heal himself in a way and, unlike Mor'du, would not die from being crushed. Like Olaf his limbs can perhaps move on their own and therefore allow Marshmellow to split himself into parts and attack from all sides. Mor'du is strong and has great endurance as well but died from getting crushed by a rock, which Marshmellow could lift with ease and just beat him to pulp with it. Also it depends on knowing the terrain